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Brian DipertEDN Senior Technical Editor Brian Dipert exposes, analyzes and
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Monday, November 3, 2008

Intel Vs AMD: The Final Chapter Entry?

Nov 3 2008 10:53AM | Permalink |Comments (15) |


I spent a substantial chunk of last weekend building up PCs, installing operating systems, driver suites and applications on them, and benchmarking them. Given today's released pricing and initial testing results on Intel's Core i7 (aka 'Nehalem') CPUs, you might think you know what hardware I was playing with. Alas, you'd be mistaken...although I do have Nehalem-based system components in hand, and although I do plan to test them soon, the first draft of my January 8, 2009 cover story is due on the 17th of this month, and I'll be at Microsoft's Windows Hardware Engineering Conference beginning tomorrow through the end of this week.

As such, given that my 1/8/09 cover story will be a hands-on performance and power consumption test of the latest 'value' processors from AMD, Intel and Via Technologies, I spent my time firing up evaluation boards for Intel's single- and dual-core Atom, as well as my Atom-fueled netbook, along with a Via C7-based ARTiGO kit (my Via Nano-based mini-ITX board is due to arrive on Friday, when I return from WinHEC). It's not yet totally clear to me what AMD's got planned for this particular market segment (I'm betting on a litho-shrunk K7), or if the company will be able to get me relevant hardware in time for print (or for that matter, online addendum) treatment.

Speaking of AMD and litho shrinks, the 45 nm Shanghai successor to the company's flawed Barcelona server CPU is set to launch sometime before year end (with a derived Phenom descendant for desktops inevitably to follow), so say the abundant rumors and reseller price lists. Given AMD's ongoing fiscal crisis and its impacts on headcount and other project parameters, I expect Shanghai to be an evolutionary baby step as compared to the prior Opteron-to-Barcelona leap...a near-identical per-core design, coupled with substantially larger amounts of core-shared L3 cache (with no further TLB flaws, one would hope) befitting the higher 45 nm transistor budget, and tweaked on-chip memory controllers that support the latest-and-greatest DDR3 SDRAM flavors.

Conversely, competitor Intel is in revolution mode, at least from the perspective of its own product line...many of the new Core i7 features are conceptually reminiscent of capabilities that AMD's offered for many years. There's:

  • The three integrated DRAM controllers, and
  • The HyperTransport-reminiscent QuickPath Interconnect

Innovation heritage debates aside, in scanning over the Core i7 reviews that went live earlier today I again shake my head wondering how AMD's going to respond (specifically in a fiscally profitable manner). As it is, AMD's 65nm products can't hit the same performance pinnacle as their Intel 45 nm Penryn-based counterparts, and AMD's been forced to under-price Intel's equivalent CPUs at lower speed bins in order to capture a modicum of business. AMD promises to up the performance ante with Shanghai, but Intel is poised to respond with Nehalem. And given past history, you can rest assured that Intel will rapidly spread the Nehalem architecture throughout its CPU product line...first mobile variants, for example, are rumored to appear in Q3 of next year.

Don't believe me? Take a look at these writeups:

AMD, it seems to me, desperately needs a big break (either in the courts or the marketplace) in order to regain its stride. But Intel doesn't seem inclined to give it one. The recent company split generated enough cash to enable AMD to keep limping along for a while longer. But at this point, I find it hard to not conclude that the company's demise is now a matter of when, not if.

AMD apologists will predictably accuse my (numerous) technical counterparts and I (with apologies to Hillary Clinton) of 'a vast Intel-wing conspiracy'. The following question isn't for them (though I suspect they'll chime in anyway). Agree or disagree with me, readers, and why? I welcome your thoughts. Meanwhile, I'll get you my suite of Core i7 results as soon as I can.

Followup: Engadget and the Inquirer provide links to even more Core i7 reviews


Reader Comments



at 11/3/2008 2:09:30 PM, Chris PE said:
I am sorry to say that , but AMD should just go away and spin-off ATI before they do it. We could all rest easier.
Better go away in glory(?) than in a really big shame.Poor guys could just never get their stuff together: thermal runaways , incompatibility and of course the last one.....
Somehow they remind me of Digital Research...



at 11/3/2008 2:34:05 PM, Scott NY said:
Does AMD right now remind anyone of SEGA during the Dreamcast days?



at 11/3/2008 2:35:29 PM, stiggle said:
I guess when there is abanking crisis the big banks with lots of reserves like to use the capital to crush the smaller banks or make generous offerings to the smaller bank''s customers. This way they can try to capture all of the business away from the small guys. Once the competition is eliminated the big banks can sit back and recoupe the investment.
Without the competition there is little motivation to innovate or invest to make other than mediocre improvements. If you don''t belive this just look at Microsoft. Microsoft just expects the public to buy the same thing over and over again because it has a pretty new package and includes few improvements if any over the previous offerings. I for one do not jump on the Win-tel bandwagon because we need companies like AMD and VIA to keep the big guns honest!
Besides when I use the newest Intel and Windows products I find that my computer simply crashes quicker.....



at 11/3/2008 5:35:55 PM, Economist said:
We certainly do need AMD for competition. If it was not for AMD, the Q6600 would cost $1000.

It is much like Kodak. Not much new came out and prices were high. Then FujiFilm came on the market and it went back and forth and the consumers won with greatly improved product and lower prices.

Also, AMD has made some bad marketing mistakes. Intel brought out quad cores that were really two chips in one package. AMD should have put two Athlon X2/FX2 in the same package and done real well.

If one looks, we see an alternating position between the two suppliers, and each drives the other. It is like any race. Together, we get better products at a lower price.

Now, if microsoft only had a competitor like Intel does.



at 11/3/2008 7:23:20 PM, Adios, AMD said:
I frankly don't care whether AMD is around much longer because I think that Intel, with warts and all, has done a magnanimous job in turning itself and its products around since P4.

I can't imagine needing to buy an AMD based solution anymore when Intel can deliver in spades.

AMD should have not gone up against the Giant 800lb gorilla.

It lost.



at 11/4/2008 3:29:00 AM, Ali said:
I fail to understand why people keep talking about Intel's 'dominance' and the likes. Dominant like in? Like in the best performing Core2 is better than the best performing Phenom? Yes it is. Better performing at the same frequency? Yes it is. But that's pretty much where this short list ends. For a given computing power, a comparison between the AMD/ATI and Intel platform-level solutions favors AMD, and on the server market AMD can actually compete on the price/performance scale on-par with Intel, without having to leave one dollar on the table as a bait. And btw, these remarks are also/especially true exactly where the per-clock CPU performance difference is the largest: for a given price, the turion/ati platform comes at a significantly better price than Core2 (somewhere around the $100+ mark for the typical laptop), is better in terms of integrated graphics speed (thus you'll see more responsiveness from your laptop when browsing e.g. youtube), as for power dissipation the two platforms are pretty much the same for a given performance. If you really want to compare the two platforms then i think one should start by setting oneself a budget and moving on from there instead of reading the frequency meter. Don't you think?



at 11/4/2008 5:54:00 AM, Eno Master said:
Thank you, stiggle and Economist. If AMD and/or VIA does go away as others have suggested, then Intel will NOT inovate as fast or keep prices as low. In such a senario, these others will be the first ones to complain that no one told them, but we did. I don't want to live in an Intel monopolized world. It would not be pretty. Thanks again, Mssrs s and E.



at 11/4/2008 11:08:42 AM, dkp said:
Of course it's good to have healthy competition but AMD is basically irrelevant these days with no hope of getting back to prominence. Stick a fork in AMD, it's done!!!



at 11/4/2008 11:29:59 AM, Otto said:
AMD may be far down the path towards extinction, but no worries, the French will save us. I read it in a c. 1985 issue of Electronics. Mitterand and the Frenchies are determined to make sure Intel & America will not dominate tomorrow's CPU market. They specifically declare that money is no object. So keep an eye on those seller lists, the Louis Vuitton Rapide will be available any day now...



at 11/5/2008 1:40:34 AM, ARO said:
Bang for the Buck, not outright speed consistently dominates 3 9's of the commerical PC market and 2 9's of domestic and in both these spaces AMD has been remarkably competitive (for it's size). In these spaces Intel's dominance is cleverly maintained through marketing and sheer volume / size, nothing technical. Bleeding edge performance and speed comparisons are relevant to a minority (value) specialist interest market and temporary at best. Anyone with a serious interest in what really counts look closely at what the experts at each PC manufacturer design-in to their volume product lines, not at press opinion.



at 11/5/2008 2:21:45 PM, CM1950 said:
Basically, this is irresponsible, baseless blather. AMD has had more lives than any cat and it is far from dead. You make the mistake of thinking everyone buys a Maseratti when most people buy a Honda. AMD makes Hondas and is changing their business to make them profitably. Next time, talk to AMD and get facts instead of making comments the SEC would be interested in.



at 11/5/2008 3:55:28 PM, Brian Dipert said:
Dear CM1950, lobbing vacuous accusations of SEC-infringing bias every time you read an opinion you don't agree with is quite childish (as well as a waste of both your time and mine, along with anyone else who peruses your post). Of course I realize that only a small (albeit highly profitable) sliver of the PC market buys high-end 'Maserati' (hint: learn to spell) CPUs. The crux of my concern with respect to AMD's continued longevity (with the qualifier that Honda, like most auto companies, also sells high-end Acura models) is PRECISELY whether or not AMD will be able to figure out how to PROFITABLY make 'Honda' CPU models. They've been trying to do so ever since the advent of Intel's Core microarchitecture kicked them off the 'Maserati' throne. They haven't yet succeeded, as measured by a long list of quarterly earnings statements. And I have serious doubts (in spite of regularly talking to AMD, in response to your concern) as to whether or not the company can pull out of its tailspin. Next time, offer reasoned observations, instead of data-deficient personal attacks.



at 11/5/2008 4:04:24 PM, Brian Dipert said:
Dear dkp (and others), as I've documented many times in the past, it's also conceptually preferable to me that there be competition, in order to spur industry-advancing innovations from all participants. On the other hand, I'm generally not in favor of artificially 'forced' competition (via legislative mandate or other factors). If AMD is able to compete in a fiscally profitable manner, I wish them an abundance of success going forward. Alternatively, if Intel is proven in the courts to have unduly exerted monopoly powers, then legal pressure should be brought to bear to correct the situation. However, if the competition is fair and AMD still fails, then from a Darwinian (evolutionary) viewpoint...



at 11/11/2008 6:59:27 PM, qaz111111 said:
Say what you will But(!), without AMD to kick around Intel will be raising prices and there won't be anyone to prevent them from enjoying monopoly pricing and profits. So don't be so quick to kick AMD just because they're down. They have saved your bacon for years and you should show some respect.



at 3/21/2009 11:54:31 PM, Warren said:
Amd will always be around its like saying ferarri will disapear i dont thinks so without competition there is momopolising and due to the size of amd and intel its like david and golieth in the bible but we all know this story.
I will never buy intel due to big componies getting big heads suport the small to create competition and better products.
Every single one of my AMD''s i bought are still running today some i have even sold twiceon an upgrade and still no worries AMD you rock!
And if you dont like overclocking get intel! it works

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