Subscribe to EDN

Wind power, not in my backyard

August 18, 2008

CNN has an article on how wind turbines are causing problems with noise and unsightly appearance. Me, I always kind of liked looking at all those turbines on Altamont pass, although I wouldn’t want to live there, what with the noise and safety and dead birds raining down like the leaves in fall. In addition to the people doing the NIMBY thing are people worried about safety, as the video of a wind turbine exploding makes clear. I think that people should not be so afraid of technology; every engineer knows that you have to grenade a few things before you get anything really worthwhile. Wind is one of the alternative energy techniques that actually seem to pay out. Apparently the price of turbines has tripled in the last few years and the companies making them are doing great. Whether this is due to real demand caused by valid economics or phony demand made by government handouts remains to be seen.

The thing that I have not seen discussed is the control theory problem with wind. Apparently there was already a blackout in Texas caused by a wind farm that stopped turning and the drop in production was not reacted to fast enough so conventional power plants jumped off-grid. Us analog types can see the problem— demand is pretty slow moving and predictable, so the utilities can bring up generating facilities in an orderly fashion. If the wind goes away or an eclipse hits all the solar panels, the drop in production looks like a sudden demand increase to the conventional generators. You don’t just switch on a generator in a few seconds, even the gas turbine ones need time to spin up and synchronize. This could be a far more problematic than noise or safety for alternative energy. If the grid operators have to keep more generators spinning at partial capacity it will increase the base cost of their electricity and they will rightly expect to be paid for keeping their generators at 50% in case the wind or sun goes away.

Posted by Paul Rako on August 18, 2008 | Comments (8)

March 23, 2009
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
JoeQPublic commented:

give me a break. this guy is trying to steer people away from wind... probably an agent of the coal industry, or some tool that has internalized the fossil fuel message. obvious nonsense.


August 25, 2008
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
Brent N commented:

I was wondering how much land is needed for wind power generaters to equal the power output of a normal sized nuclear power plant? My concern is farm land in the midwest being convert to meet government demands to be more "Green".


August 19, 2008
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
Watts D. Matter commented:

Watched the video of the exploding wind turbine. How did they know just when to watch it explode?


August 19, 2008
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
Rui commented:

This looks like a good solution to balance the loads en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery Lets not make excuses for our inertia for change.


August 19, 2008
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
Paul Rako commented:

Thanks for the great comments-- Phil, I don''t think worrying about the control issues are nonsense, the link I provided starts out with: "A drop in wind generation late on Tuesday, coupled with colder weather, triggered an electric emergency that caused the Texas grid operator to cut service to some large customers" So that is a fact, not nonsense. Indeed, when plants started going offline in New York in 1965 it triggered the largest blackout in US history. Indeed, no matter if you call a wind turbine, a generator or a negative load, if the power output is suddenly variable it creates a new control problem. If indeed the generators are 3 megawatt (which is really cool in my opinion) then a sudden cessation in that generation is more problematic then when loads come on line-- since they do somewhat "monotonically" so to speak. I am quite impressed by the specs mentioned-- I have seen the 14 RPM mentioned before-- does that mean the turbines are not ac? They make DC and convert to AC like a solar installation? And Meridith-- do you have a grid-tied generator or do you get to select where the power is wheeled from? Thanks for all the great info--


August 18, 2008
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
phil marchand commented:

I think windpower is great. Love it. Two comments on your article: A: indeed, govenment subsidies distort the truth. I feel the governement should stop subsidizing any of the energy solutions; including oil, alcohol, solar, nuclear, hybrid cars, etc. Let the free market sort out what works and what is real. B: Your argument about new control problems because the wind can stop is nonsense. Conventional power plants also go offline suddenly.


August 18, 2008
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
Meredith Poor commented:

I live in San Antonio, Texas. In April and October power costs about 6 cents per KWH. In the middle of the summer various extras cut in, and power runs up to about 11 cents per KWH. City Public Service (The SA utility) charges a 3 cent per KWH premium for wind power. One of the charges that gets added to the regular bill is a fuel adjustment charge. That is now running 4 cents per KWH. I've switched to wind power to save money. This is a pure bottom line decision. There's no doubt in my mind that wind power is now competitive.


August 18, 2008
In response to: Wind power, not in my backyard
Moe Rubenzahl commented:

That's a tough one -- balancing the rights and needs of the neighbors. You hear about the poor folks who had to cut down their trees because they shaded the neighbor's solar array? The array was built after the trees were planted. But this was not a straightforward case -- hard to balance everyone's rights. I know I would not be thrilled to have a bank of windmills next door.

POST A COMMENT
Display Name
captcha

Before submitting this form, please type the characters displayed above. Note the letters are case sensitive:

Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
About EDN   |   Site Map   |   Contact Us   |   Subscription   |   RSS
© 2012 UBM Electronics. All rights reserved.
Use of this Web site is subject to its Terms of Use | Privacy Policy

Please visit these other UBM Canon sites

UBM Canon | Design News | Test & Measurement World | Packaging Digest | EDN | Qmed | Pharmalive | Appliance Magazine | Plastics Today | Powder Bulk Solids | Canon Trade Shows