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SaaS for EDA

May 7, 2009

SaaS, or software as a service, is the capability to deliver software over the net. In web 1.0 years this was called the ASP model, for application service provider. The archetypal company doing this is Salesforce.com, which provides customer relationship management (CRM) software for businesses, initially small and medium sized. This was in comparison with companies like Siebel (now part of Oracle) who used the traditional installed software model, basically the same model as almost all EDA companies use.

So will SaaS take over EDA? The advertised advantages of SaaS are a lower cost of sales, faster update cycle for the software, and that it can be incrementally adopted one seat at a time. And several EDA companies, some small, one called Cadence, have announced SaaS offerings already.

I think the attraction of SaaS for users comes from a misunderstanding: that with SaaS, which is one kind of “metered use” of tools, the tool bill would go down. This seems unlikely. One problem with all kinds of metered use for EDA is that the large users have licenses that run 24 hours per day, and small users just use tools occasionally (for example, during tapeout). If the tool/hour is priced so that the heavy users pay a little less than before, then occasional users pay almost nothing. If the tool/hour is priced so that the occasional users pay a little less than before, then the heavy users prices go up by multiples of the current cost. There is no good in-between price either. SaaS doesn’t get around this issue. And if many people don’t pay less than before they are not going to adopt metered use, SaaS or otherwise.

I think that the dynamics of the business process are very different for EDA. One assumption in SaaS is that by lowering the barrier to entry to a single seat bought over the net, as opposed to a corporate deal, the market can be expanded to people who corporate deals don’t reach, or at the very least it will steal significant market share from the big guys. This was salesforce.com’s base, initially selling to people who would not have bought a CRM system, and then stealing users from the big guys. It is classic Innovator’s Dilemma disruption, starting not by stealing business from the established market leaders, but going where the competition is "non-use."

But most EDA is not like that. There is no crowd of unsatisfied IC designers just waiting to build chips if only place & route were cheaper. And as to undercutting the big guys, any innovative business model that turns EDA into a smaller market is likely to reduce investment in EDA, which gets problematic very quickly. Stealing a market segment Craigslist style, by turning a billion dollar market into a million dollar market and dominating it, will not be able to sustain the R&D needed. The reality is that you can’t compete much on price in EDA: there is no market to expand into, and if you succeed in stealing a lot of market at a low price then you had better genuinely have lower costs (especially in R&D) to be able to do it again for the next process node. It is a similar problem to the one in pharmaceuticals. Drugs cost a lot less to make than they sell for, but if you artificially (by fiat or excessive discounting) reduce the prices too much then current drugs are cheap but no new ones will be forthcoming. Unlike with drugs not developed, if there are no workable tools for the next process node then we will all know what we are missing; it is not just a profit opportunity foregone, it is a disaster.

The next problem with EDA is that you can’t get the job done with tools from only one vendor. So if you use SaaS to deliver all your EDA tools, you will repeatedly need to move the design from one vendor to another. But these files are gigabytes in size and not so easily moved. So it seems to me that if SaaS is going to work, it has to be  through some sort of intermediary who has all (or most) tools available, not just the tools from a single vendor. If you use a Cadence flow but you use PrimeTime (Synopsys) for timing signoff and Calibre (Mentor) for physical verification then this doesn’t seem workable unless all are available without copying the entire design around.

Another problem is that SaaS doesn’t work well for highly interactive software. Neither Photoshop nor layout editors seem like they are good candidates for SaaS since the latency kills the user experience versus a traditional local application. Yes, I know Adobe has a version of Photoshop available through SaaS, but go to any graphics house and see if anyone uses it.

There are some genuine advantages in SaaS. One is that software update is more painless since it is handled at the server end. You don’t normally notice when Google tweaks its search algorithm. But designers are rightly very wary of updating software during designs: better the bugs you know than some new ones. So again, EDA seems to be a bit different, at least has been historically.

The early part of the design process and FPGA design are a better place for SaaS perhaps. The files are smaller even if they need to be moved, the market is more elastic (not everyone is already using the best productivity tools). But this part of the market already suffers from difficulty in extracting value from the market and SaaS risks reducing the price without a corresponding true reduction in cost. Walmart is not the low price supplier because it has everyday low prices; it has everyday low prices because it has got its costs lower than anyone else’s. Perhaps the ideal market is FPGA design where the main tool suppliers are not really trying to make money on the tools directly, and where few of the designs are enormous.

So if SaaS is going to succeed in EDA, my guess it that it will either be a virtual CAD organization offering tools from many vendors, or else in the FPGA world where single-vendor flows are common.

Posted by Paul McLellan on May 7, 2009 | Comments (9)

March 27, 2010
In response to: SaaS for EDA
Tips for Diet commented:

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May 12, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
Jeremy Ralph commented:

I did a blog posting on this entitled "Some Graffiti About SaaS for EDA" at RegisterBits.com


May 11, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
James Colgan commented:

There are other uses of a SaaS delivery model. Xuropa enables the test-drive of EDA tools in a remote environment (Cadence opened their Incisive OVM Functional Verification tools last week in Xuropa Online Labs bit.ly/rNzXk). We are actively looking for other EDA or configurable IP vendors who need to lower their cost of sales via a Xuropa Online Lab.


May 11, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
James Colgan commented:

A well reasoned opening to a discussion, but to continue to view the entire flow as a single entity to move to a SaaS model lock-step will always result in the same conclusions - and nothing will ever improve (change). This presumes that all is well, and it''''s not. Harry is correct IMO in that verification shows early promise. I would add some ESL applications as well. Key points to expand upon are - TCO, not just the price of the software. Data centers are becoming crushingly expensive and need to be factored in to the calculation. Also, there are semiconductor designers out there that would develop chips "if only the place and route tool were cheaper". Meaning - ideas and expertise to design and develop next generation chips have not dried up, but the funding has. This is where an EDA vendor can leverage a SaaS model, reduce their cost of sales and service an under-served segment. Costs of sales - this is escalating for all EDA vendors and needs to be brought under control (another SaaS benefit). The technical aspects you raise again suffer from dealing with the flow as a complete entity. There are solutions, but it''''s not a one-size-fits-all. For more discussion see a long post from last December: bit.ly/MHett


May 7, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
harry the ASIC guy commented:

The US Gov today released a very clear draft definition of cloud computing which you can find here tinyurl.com/d9425u. As part of the definition are included 3 delivery models, Software-as-a-Service (SaaS), Platform-as-a-Service (PaaS), and Infrastructure-as-a-Service (IaaS). For EDA, I think the most relevant one is Infrastructure-as-a-Service whereby companies can access on-demand compute resources that look very similar to the data centers they now have on-site. With this model, software could be licensed many different ways, including pay-per-use, but also for short terms like Cadence does today with their EDACard. In either case, the main benefits are quick startup, lower initial investment, and no need to build your own design center and hire your own IT people.


May 7, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
Jeremy Ralph commented:

As a vendor currently offering a niche SaaS tool (SpectaReg.com for register-map automation) in production, to paying customers working on both FPGA and ASICs, I strongly believe SaaS is and will become a reality for some aspects of EDA. I've got many thoughts, more than would be reasonable to put in this comment, and I hope to soon write a posting about this article on my blog at RegisterBits.com. Sure, there are some aspects of EDA that are not well suited for today's SaaS, particularly in the back end flows, due to large files sizes and such, but there are some niches that are well suited. As Gary Smith keeps pointing out the real growth opportunities for EDA are in the embedded space where files are small. Also FPGA is a real growth space. SaaS and web-applications have benefits that could lead to a new class of collaborative EDA apps that easily scale across teams and locations and offer a lower cost structure.


May 7, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
harry the ASIC guy commented:

Also, I''ve recently come to many of the same conclusions as you regarding where the chasm must be crossed ... either FPGA design, where Xilinx cares less about selling tools than ICs, or verification, where the use of tools is very bursty. SaaS combined with on-demand computing can allow a small company to access a large number of licenses for a short period of time. AMS simulation is also a candidate since it requires large numbers of corners or monte carlo sims at small geometries. In fact, I had a call just last week from a sales guy asking if I had already set up a cloud with AMS tools to sell to his client who needed to run 1000 sims in the course of a week. I think it''s this marriage of on-demand computing (aka cloud computing) and a pay-per-use or short-term licensing model (I would refrain from calling it SaaS) that is most appealing to SMBs.


May 7, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
harry the ASIC guy commented:

As probably the most vocal person regarding SaaS and Cloud Computing for EDA tools, I was obviously very interested in this post of yours. As usual, a very well thought out and insightful writeup. Indeed, I agree that the ideal (for the user) long-term model would be a vendor neutral site that would have access to all the EDA tools from all vendors available for use. It would also need to have a unifying design flow that enabled the use of any tool through standard formats and APIs and utilized virtualization to spawn tasks into the cloud. This is the most difficult missing piece, since it would require vendors to work together to enable a model that might destroy them. It might never happen, but then who knows.


May 7, 2009
In response to: SaaS for EDA
Thomas commented:

See Hosted VCAD on cadence.com And u can install 3rd party tools !

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