Toyota issues mechanical pedal fix for 2.3 million cars

That's an advertising site! Go directly to the NHTSA site to check your car for recalls: www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm

I heard about the pedal recall, but now a hybrid recall, the honda airbag recall and to think I could have had no idea if it affected my NON toyota car good thing I found more info here carpedalrecall.com searched for my make, model, year and found my car had been recalled so look out! it could save a life maybe yours don't understand how serious or what the car pedal recall is about? just watch this video at the end it also shows how to stop a out of control car very useful youtube.com/watch?v=NGe3EOJ-CMY

Steve, Ummm... I'm the one who raised the point earlier of the three-second pushbutton as a design error. With the electronic controls in cars from all manufacturers, people need a way to overcome them. It looks like putting a car in neutral is the only way to do so. blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/putting-a-car-in-neutral-might-save-your-life.html This doesn't look like it is exclusively a Toyota issue. "Based on our analysis, the ratio of reports for experiencing such a problem on 2008 model-year vehicle from Toyota Motor Corporation is about one in nearly 50,000. The Ford Motor Company?s reported risk is about one in nearly 65,000." --Consumer Reports blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/12/sudden-unintended-acceleration-sua-analysis-2008-toyota-lexus-ford-gm.html BTW, with respect to the Prius cruise control issue, I stopped using the cruise control on my previous-generation Lexus ES-330 because I don't like the way the controls work ...and the way the car accelerates somewhat when you turn on cruise control. The cruise control user interface may be logical to the engineer at Toyota, but it isn't logical to me.

Martin, Woz's Prius may well have a cruise-control problem. You might want to determine whether a Prius' hybrid drive train uses the same ECM as the gasoline-powered Toyota's involved in the recall. My reading of Woz' statement doesn't seem to carry over to those other cars. He's just using the current Toyota notoriety to point out another issue. Seems that the Prius braking problem is yet another issue. Toyota seems to be experiencing a miserable cluster failure at the moment, caused by some longstanding issues with its cars. As I stated earlier, if Toyota's publicly stated cause for the problem and the fix do not prove correct, then Toyota is indeed in the soup. The phalanx of attorneys working for Toyota already know this and I am certain they have advised Toyota management accordingly.

FYI: Lexus and Prius included: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35228196/ns/business-washington_post/

Steve, I merely referred you to an old blog from 2006 showing distrust then of a mechanical issue and the CTS press release where they indicate that the Prius acceleration issue (Tht the "Woz" has) has nothing to do with them. When Steve Wozniak "The Woz of Silicon Valley" addresses national news and states it is electronic in nature then the rest of us in the electronic engineering world come out to back him. He has had the same "issue" with his Prius and correct me if I am wrong, but CTS does not make the TPS or pedal for Prius. It appears the ECM is the common culprit and Toyota will be able to coverup any micrcontroller or ECM problem with thier "pedal recall". This is not carpet, human or mechanical...it is clearly electronic in nature. "If it looks like a pig and smells like a pig then it is a pig"

Martin, the TPS is the throttle position sensor. It's the potentiometer on the axle of the pedal assembly. The symptom will be the same if the grounded side of that potentiometer fails or if the pedal sticks mechanically. Toyota says it's mechanical stiction. Someone you quoted who jumped a battery backwards claims the reversed voltage screwed up the TPS. I have a hard time understanding your connection here. Likewise, your reference to a CTS disclaimer saying the company doesn't make pedal assemblies for Lexus or Scion. I don't see the connection with this story. Whether it's the TPS or the rotary friction clutch, it's still part of the CTS-built Toyota pedal assembly. If CTS built the assembly to print, then it's Toyota's problem. If CTS didn't, then it's CTS' problem.

...and CTS anniunced this today: www.ctscorp.com/publications/press_releases/nr100203.htm

Check out this blog which suspects the TPS, which makes mnore sense: forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?p=210677

Curt, I agree that everyone should learn to operate their vehicle safely in an emergency. However, in my opinion, an automobile design that requires an experienced driver to "learn" an unfamiliar way to stop a car in an emergency situation is simply a bad design. To my knowledge, only race, sprint, and rally car drivers, drivers of commercial equipment (big trucks and busses), and heavy-equiment operators get specialized instruction tailored for a specific vehicle design. The rest of us get drivers ed training in high school and a manual in the glove box that rarely gets read. Engineers must design products with a sure knowledge and deep understanding of how people actually use their product designs, especially common products like automobiles, not with a burning wish for doing something different and a burning desire to "educate" the unwashed masses who aren't trained as engineers.

Consumer Reports says to learn to stop your car -- whatever the make or model -- by putting it in neutral. blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/putting-a-car-in-neutral-might-save-your-life.html

I think the groves in this ?friction clutch? were intended to provide constant friction between the rotating pedal groves so that there is a mechanical resistance to movement similar to that seen in a cable or rod actuated throttle. If it was just a spring and a potentiometer to provide resistance, it would be a very touchy throttle. The spring pivot design is intended to compensate for wear of the teeth over the live of the pedal. What I think is inaccurate about the drawing is that it shoes the block bottomed out, if it is, there is no friction, or at least no friction very long. What I bet is more the case is that the spacer allows perhaps maybe 20% of the original wear compensation before bottoming out. Once its bottomed out, no friction, no stiction and a very touchy throttle. I wonder if they will warn mechanics not to stand in front or behind customer?s cars the first time they drive their fixed gas pedal?s. Me thinks it will cause more accidents than it prevents?? Self lubricating plastic is a well understood material that?s been used for 40 years. What I wonder is what the root cause was? Candidates include - Insufficient life testing of material - nexepected environment or contaminent (ie salt air or undercoating getting somewhere it shouldn?t - Mistake or unintended change in profile and alignment of friction clutch pieces that results in excessive wear or galling - CTS or other supplier changed spec on plastic by accident or in order to get cost reduction but never tested for wear or galling (that?s my bet) My opinion - The spacer greatly reduces the life of the friction clutch if not disables it immediately. If they are going to disable the friction clutch in the pedal assy, it will create a whole new set of touchy throttle problems down the line. I bet once this is understood, consumers will be wanting new pedal assy's and not this fix.

I don't like to be a Luddite here - but if "Fly By Wire" is a must for these folks and their designs and 3 second turn off delays are wired in - then they must put a "panic switch" to kill the car immediately somewhere in easy reach of the driver. I don't want one of these "can't turn the darn thing off" cars! Perhaps if the uP senses the gas on AND the brake on and the on/off switch being pushed at the same time - then it really should listen to the "Pilots", errr, I mean "drivers" input and really turn the car off, like immediately. It won't take long before the Lawyers put them out of business if they keep this design methodology up.

I'm a certified design curmudgeon with over 15 years of Telecom design (Nortel, may she rest in pieces) and 5 years of biomed design under my belt. In those environments the engineering philosophy is that EVERYTHING breaks, eventually. A fairly standard technique is to enumerate all parts and at the very least look at the consequences of what happens if each piece breaks. Then you look at the consequences of multiple simultaneous failures, but usually you restrict that set to those things that are likely to break since the number of combinations gets unwieldy. A stuck gas pedal is certainly something that should have been addressed and mitigated, especially in a drive by wire system. That all being said, I have had the accelerator pedal/system stick wide open on two of my previous cars, both at the end of their useful service (1970 Volvo and 1979 Honda Civic). In both those cases the hermetic seal of the throttle cables had been compromised and moisture had frozen in the lines. It got real exciting for a few seconds and then I turned the key off. /Kevin

CTS is an old-line maker of potentiometers. I always liked their products back when I was designing systems. Note that if Toyota's current explanation is correct, it's not the electrical component of the accelerator pedal that's to blame, it's the mechanical component. I'm not saying I'm entirely convinced of the explanation, but the reason for the pedal failure given by Toyota can completely account for the observed behavior. No addiitonal code flakiness is required. However, I did read that Toyota will be modifying throttle-control code to recognize a condition where both the accelerator and brake pedals are being mashed to the floor (2-footed driving) and will take appropriate action.

Yes, the pushbutton delay is a design error. Three seconds is a very long time under those circumstances. Natural tendency is to push a button repeatedly. Toyota is apparently not fixing that. Major mistake, IMO. CTS, the supplier of the pedals, says that they only started supplying pedals to Toyota with the pushbutton-generation models -- i.e. for model-year 2005. There is more to this mess than just floormats and mechanically-sticking pedals.

Andy T: The new sensor-based, pushbutton ignition system used by Toyota in all but the most basic cars reportedly has a 3-second delay in motor shutoff. I'm sure that's to prevent accidentally shutting off the engine with an inadvertant touch. It's poor human design in my opinion. A driver in a panic, even a coldly logical engineer (ahem), might give up trying to shut off the engine before 3 seconds of high-rev terror is up. The CTS accelerator pedal assemblies associated with this sticking problem are reportedly not used in Toyota's high-end Lexus and low-end Scion lines. I heard on NPR this afternoon that Denso pedals use a bolt-based friction mechanism instead of the plastic friction shoes in the CTS pedal (illustrated above) and that the Denso pedals do not appear to exhibit this problem. At this point, we don't know much definitive. However, the NPR inerview stated and I agree that if this current fix doesn't remedy the problem, Toyota's in the soup.

The hotrod Ford I had built on my own in high school had a 4BBL 600CFM Holley Carb sitting on top of a raised plenum aluminum manifold. Having nowhere to attach the return spring for the gas pedal, I attached the end of that coil spring to the heater hose clamp, which was off at a bit of an angle, but close enough to being in the right place as far as the return tension I wanted to have on the pedal. Worked like a charm. Also, I could care less about pedal feel with my foot - the feeling I was after was in my backside after pressing the pedal down. I also have the common sense to SHUT THE KEY OFF, or disconnect the drivetrain ("N") on any control runaway, so the risk of my accelerator setup were next to nil IMO. The problem is the driver, not the design, whose independent intellect was demonstrated during the decision on which car to buy....the one all the other sheep bought - the one that started the screwing of our domestic economy because some Japanese-influenced marketing tool called "Consumer Reports" said it was good. The one that has a slot car motor for an alternator. It's also funny how Lexus is not mentioned anywhere, yet it's probably the same gas pedal, just more highly statused sheep.