India's $20 laptop plan challenges our thinking about system design

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The most important take from this article should be "And it is exciting what we can do when nothing is assumed except our ability to understand the user's needs." And not whether the target price is achieved in entirety.

Wait til corporations start spending freely on US election campaigns. Then we'll surely be in a fix. I say make the politicians were corporate logos on their suits like race car drivers so we know where not to shop.

Yeah they have a Vision, Vision to print the green bill when ever they need. Best joke is trying to leagalize their green bill as equivalent to holding gold reserves. Second Vision is to hunt for weapons of mass destruction while sucking oil in the backyard. ...modern day colonization without physical occupation

Look at the Bigger Picture and the Implications. People and leaders in India have a VISION for their country's FUTURE. The Vision is access to education for all citizens. The Vision is enabling opportunity and self-improvement for all citizens. The Vision will be fulfilled. Note that India's Vision does NOT include the big politics of trillions of dollars of debt, huge financial bail-outs, huge big-brother social spending programs, and the inevitable big taxations. Does the USA have a vision?

Yesterday I read an article on how to hack a HP calculator that has an Atmel processor, bit image LCD display, unused processor port pins brought out to pads, keyboard, power supply and JATAG programming connections. I didn?t check on the retail price but I bet the manufacturer?s price is well below $20.00.

I bought my first computer in 1984, a Timex/Sinclair with membrane kbd for $30 at a pharmacy store. 2KB RAM w/RF modulator plugged into an old b/w tv. $10 for a book on Z80 assembly language, a notepad for writing out my programs on, and a simple Basic program for consecutively 'poking' opcodes into memory and taught myself Basic and Z80 assembly language at 16 years old. I'm sure there are plenty of kids around the world that would do similar things, if they had the chance, but it takes some dedication and available information. A cheap computer is great, but it will also need internet connectivity.

'almost' all people from that 'place' is a scam! had a lot of bad experiences working with them ...

the real question is: what is the R&D budget for that project... the unit cost is then related

We in the USA seem to forget a lot of things when we talk about how much things cost; first off in asia there are already small cars and trucks that sell for $1200 brand new; and no thats not a typo or my demented mind, $1200 I tell you; they are perfectly usable, but they would be illegale here in the USA as they don't have the bummpers at the right hight, don't have the right size lights, yada yada yada, they have too small an engine for many americans, they only do like 45 when racked out, run off an engine that is smaller than many a rich person in the USA's lawn tractor, but they would be perfect for someone who lives in the city and doesn't need to go far, you like driving to the store or go a few miles to work, but then there is the other problem, that is they get way too high of gas milage, better than many USA motorcycles, so rich robber barons in the USA wouldn't even let them in the country. Also what most americans refer to as a laptop is not exactly what a laptop is, first off it can be a lot heavyer than what many people currently want, 10,15, even 20# would still be ok to use, One of the first things you can cut off that computer to make it cheap is the battery, no need for a battery just plug it in, or shove disposable batterys in it, next is a color screen, you don't need a color screen B/W would work, next no fancy case just a basic plastic box, then as someone said a membrain keyboard with cursor pads, then no hard drive, just a flash chip, a low end cpu, hell even an 8bit microcontroler, a little ram, and a modem, and you could send e-mail, read information, do math, kids could do there homework, people could ballance a checkbook, hell you could even play simple games. So I have no dought at all of the $20 laptop as they have realy cheap labor, plus things like the display could be used parts from old computers; you know the ones we in the USA have been throwing away for years, instead of getting them in the hands of poor students like we should have done; and India and many other countrys have been buying our old computers for pennys as scrap for a long time.

What electronic device can you get for $20 now? A dumb one chip MP3 player where cost has been reduced to its bare bones and profit margins reduced to its lowest possible. Thats about all you can get for $20. All of this talk of a $20 PC is really a farce. Reducing a $300~400 netbook to make a $150-~200 netbook is a challenge. Reducing to make it a $20 netbook is just silly.

Like all things I am sure that the $20 Laptop will be produced - no display(TV?) or it will be $20 with a finance model similar to the mobile phone subscriptions. Just don't exect a lot. It would be interesting to read their target performance specs. With the Tata Nano the much heralded entry price is just that and the volumes are very limited is it a loss leader for the higher level versions or is it just free advertising? $10 laptop anybody and please print my company name in all your publications ;-)

The comment on test time is unfounded. A properly designed system will provide self test. I have designed too many systems with this parameter. It must be designed in at the beginning.

The main problem with Microsoft and Intel is that Microsoft "innovates" by bollocksing up everything in the user interface with each release, and lacks Operational Excellence = Consistency and error-free operation. Intel's fallacy is being tied to such a corrupt partner as Microsoft. Intel hardware, coupled with a user=top-priorty RTOS type of environment would be wonderful. The main problem with computing now is that it isn't multitasking, and if it is, then Updates, and behind-the-scenes activities have taken priority over the user. This is a kiss of death. $20 doesn't matter if it's a wristwatch.

There are many paradigms where this is possible. We love our old PV cell powered TI scientific calculators. We in the USA can do this, too. All you need to is ask! Love those Indian, Chinese, German, Israeli, and Mexican engineers near us in Saint Paul. We say 'turn them loose on a 20$ PC solution'.

I have been reading your posts lately, just want to say thanks for all informative stuff i have found here, helped me learn alot lately. Much Regards, Mark

This is the fun part, really. It is a rare privilege to think this far outside the boundaries of the proverbial box. And it is exciting what they can do when nothing is assumed except their ability to understand the user's needs.

there's too much opinion but less engineering data!..i've seen this before and I call it politics....talking without engineering data is just pure politics and its a waste of time.... real engineering live and dwell with engineering data before deciding feasibility of anything...show us the BOM cost and then we can talk all day about this thing...else i just consider this as pure non-sense and totally absurd topic to talk about.

YEA RIGHT

YEA RIGHT

All that they have to do is to recycle our old computers

We can meake ultra light laptop at ultra lowest cost with SOC. in SOC we put VGA system, RAM accsess system, core of x86 processor, network (internet)& block devices system just in one chip in FPGA or others (ASIC too expenzive, very long development).This integrated system in SOC cause high performance on computation and lowest power . mMore interesting is make special processor in SOC without paging but with other protection technique (4 high performance) for general purpse OS .

So it turns out that even the american capitalist way of thinking is not so good after all. In India the salaries are very low. Indians are very smart people but we must find another way of to solve the problems. The current way the economy is working is wrong. We must find another way. The 20 $ laptop is suitable for India due to low salaries. If a programmer in India can live with 50 $ a month i would say that we have to think twice before we can say anything.

Gentlemen: A $20 computer has already been manufactured. It is called a ZX-81. For you Kids it was manufactured by Sinclair origionally then later by Timex-Sinclair. A Cheap Modem and current browser technology a cheap bi-color monitor (do you really need color for online learning). Now the problem truly is the influx of Engineers from India that are taking American Jobs. They truly do work for nothing!

If we can do a NANO we can do a $20 PC too.

You can make anything for $20 if you sell 1 billion of them

...and PLEASE! , do not call Nano a car.It is a dangerous vehicle based on expanded moped.

There are a few problems here.NOBODY needs a basic computer today.You can find them on E-bay for $20.00.Second they may do miracles, but will NEVER get a good enough screen to call it a laptop.Might as well call it a word-processor.The last comment may not be too nice, but did you ever see tools made in India? And they could build a laptop?I did see Nano and it is a joke, not a car....sorry , but very rarely a student is better than master.....just a pipe dream

I bought my first computer in California, in the 80''s, for about $20. It was a Timex Sinclair... and I could use basic and assembly languages... I agree a modern $20 computer is achievable, just the applications developed to operate it will require a renewed programming savvy that we havent seen here at home in awhile...

Moreover, you guys should know we dont beleive we are third world, because we dont accept the definitions of low life cow boys and bomb makers.

What is co relation of being first world and being born bastard. Anybody

To fully understand "get up and go", I'd suggest you visit india and you'll immediately understand true motivation

actually, we did! We paid to educate tens of thousands of the best and brightest of India, then disallowed them to work here. So now they are back in India and will be kicking silicon valley and cambridge forthwith

I think this is a very interesting idea. I'm not sure how well it will all boil over, but what an interesting concept. I also agree: Good luck to them, as well!

apdelcomm: I think you may have read between the lines very accurately here. ron

you computer guys better wise up and fast!!!! The Indian students do not need much more than the ZX-81 mentioned by one responder. They need to study over the net, much like Australian students in the outback learned over short wave radio years ago. These students will work their tails off to learn so they can earn. basically they need an electronic teletypewriter. they seem to have inherited the good old American ingenuity and get-up-and-go!Good luck to them

Technical aspects aside, is it really a market any western company wants to take on, much less dominate. The Indian economy is vast, but heavily protected with massive duties and business ownership controls, while at the same time their government demands free access to the west and for a host of low quality / cheap products. It would be nice to think that the Indian computer market is hanging there, ripe for exploitation, but any company that succeeds there is at risk of being plundered.

You can already get a laptop for less than $100, even less than $90 from China. If they split the usage among say 10 students cloud-computing style with shared downloading, each student pays his/her 1/10 share (<$10).

It was called a Timex/Sinclair ZX1 back in the early 80s. WHen the IBMPC was selling for $4K+, the timex was sold for about $200. It inspired a generation of programmers. The $20 Indian laptop will do the same. It's no iMAC and doesn't need to be. The 3rd world needs affordable bootstraps too.

Think! I have no computer. I have few books. I want to learn.What do I need? Black and white low power LCD monitor (look at wristwatch). Telewriter-64(plus) word processor (Radio Shack color computer pgm in B/W.). Simple spreadsheet. Both worked on 64kbytes ram (that''s k) Internet via cellphone i/o. Low power (solar)and supercap power. Simple AC power supply. Thumb drive storage. I do not need facebook. I do not need CNN. I do not need color. I need to learn. I need to learn. I need to learn. I challenge you analog engineers to build this hardware. I challenge you programmers to build the software. I challenge you mechanicals to give me a low cost box.----- No Atari, no commodore, no Amiga, no PC, no IBM/msDOS, no MS, no Intel----Volume is 2 million per year India and China alone. Use your imagination! If you can''t do it for $20 USD built in China or India, how close can you come. You have 8 months to prototype.

They use wintel components, they just have indians do the price negotiating!

I can see the social case studies of this widget in 100 years - something along the lines of how this device was singularly responsible for keeping the developing 3rd world ''n'' paces behind the rest of the world. A sub-standard pacifier that was stuck in the mouths of the 3rd world to slow their pursuit of technologies that would have otherwise enabled competitive abilities.

The big jump was from the typewriter to a word processor, adding machine to spreadsheet. I don't NEED a GUI to do email. The rest is fluff. Remember the old Atari and Amiga. Good graphics and low cost.

Apparently people should have heeded Dale M's message to check out the real news reports on this device. I went to the Times of India webpage on the subject (found it right from Google) and it is proving to be a source of some shame for the Indians. Quoting from the Times, here is part of their story on the "unveiling" "As the device appeared smaller than the normal laptop with 10-inch length and five-inch width, buzz got around that it was a ``Nano-top'' and not a laptop. But MHRD official brought the curtains down on all the hungama, saying it was just a computing device with 2GB memory. Joint Secretary, MHRD, N K Sinha said that the device still needs to be fine tuned. But he had no answer to the million dollar question: where was the $10 laptop? " I guess they havent solved those technical problems cited by a few writers above, such as cost of display, batteries, etc. This was NOT a $20 laptop though.

In fact many times our design engineers creativity is mostly used to create needs instead of being used to solve the real needs at a minimum cost. Crises could be seeing as necessary to unlock our ability to create new real solutions and paradigms that lasts until the next crises.

It is interesting that a move like this could be a 'starter laptop' for basic needs, then as each individual increases acumen, move up to more involved computers.

If you design a PC to have the same basic features as the original Compaq Computer 386 (for instance), but in today''s technology, it could easily be done in India for $20 (with the main chip produced in Taiwan).The problem today is that the software is so bloated that it requires too much memory. And the OS is always being updated. If you limit the programs to the size they were in say 1990, then just design an SoC containing 386 type CPU, OS in ROM, up to 16 Meg of SRAM, Video interface, and multiple USB ports. Low cost USB Keyboard and Flash Memory stick for storage, along with low cost display would complete the computer. Back in the `80s software companies spent more effort in reducing the size of their s/w because they had to. In India s/w skills are abundant, so they could establish the limit to the size of programs. And the original Home Computers had OS in ROM. A computer can be more secure and validated with the OS in ROM.

It is a great and bold step taken by Indians,they should go ahead and show the world that anything is possible.

I'm still waiting to get the cheap Motorola "disposable" phone they sell to developing nation consumers. All it does is make phone calls, and that's all I want, with the battery lasting much much longer. Disposable laptop computers, yes that is a good idea too. Some hype, some workable ideas, some significant reduction in pricing for something that serves a function. Eventually a real product.

just read this news - timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/10_laptop_turns_out_be_a_joke/articleshow/4078115.cms

Nano Car for $2500..Doomed World Auto Industry. Laptop for $20 ...Doomed High tech. India''s Cell phone rates cheapest in the world...Doomed Big Phone Companies. Know for sure that they donot eat Beef ...Most secured Industry for future Jobs /Profit & Growth .that''s why Macdonald stock is rising !!! Hope $20 computer is a Toy one.

I think the comparison between the Intel/Microsft type of product and the Indian suggestion may not be relevant. I base this comment on the Intel/Microsoft products being built to provide all things to all people. If you (or rather, Intel/Microsft) were to base their design criteria on an email/websurfer with basic app software as opposed to the capability of doing everything from email/websurfing to gaming and high end business apps then I beleive the prices for the current manufacturers may be substantially reduced. If current manufacturers were to take this direction, then it may also mean an increase in high end product prices due to reduced quantities being manufactured.

Oh thy naysayers - Remember what Alexander (may be great to you all in the west but really a cruel invader to us Indians) said to his General - what a paradoxical country it is! So, do not count us out. It may not be attractive to people used to making lot of money of any product in US. But the government in India plays a big role and if it decides to produce and dole out at marginal profit, to make e-government work, it will do so and save the country billions of US$. Jai Ho.

Putting aside political rhetoric, consider one possible technical approach. Assume an SOC with some processor in the corner as stated with on-chip cache and off-chip interface to a single SDRAM chip for code execution RAM. This SOC includes USB, UART, VGA or QVGA Display Controller and display memory, keyboard scanner, switchmode power supply controller and other regulators. External FETs for DC-DC. Ext RS232 IC. Use Surplus CRT Monitor or TV via RF Modulator & membrane kbd. No battery since laptop does not necessarily mean portable. SOC is $2 to $4, total BOM less than $15. Ext AC to DC power unit less than $3. Public domain C Code & open OS Linux. Less than $20 total. It is possible.

This might just work in the West if it is part of a profitable contract with a Internet Provider.

Do you remember the Sinclair ZX-80 computer and its Timex counterpart. These days you really could build and sell that unit for $20. There are remote controls selling for that price today with greater functionality.

When I was younger, I wrote a marketing paper. In my paper, any company could subsidize a laptop that would play 2 minutes of advertising every time it was turned on and after every hour of use. The laptop would update itself once a month after being connected to the internet. But since I was using $150.00 dollar laptops, I had to increase the advertising frequency and add more companies to work out the plan. Regardless, I was told that I was an idiot. I wonder now, if my professor would think the same, had I been able to use a $20 laptop in my imaginary marketing scheme. Thankfully, I will never know.

I thought their final goal is $10. The current status is $20.

Everyone who uses a computer, I have now for nearly 40 years, knows it's all about "what you can do with it" not how much it costs!

I (a "sophisticated" customer in the West) don't need the bloatware I find on my computer. If that enables a cheap processor, great. I don't really want to deal with a membrane keyboard, so I'll pay the extra for the "mediocre" mechanical one. So can I get it for $40 ?

Since the cheap laptop article started talking about augmenting learning in underdeveloped countries as the objective, this potential $20 unit could very well be a give away as part of the service costs of providing the communication package that will light up the knowledge content.

The 20 Buck Lap top is not a dream any more than the 2500 car which TATA is on line to build. I the case of the car a lot of questions had to be asked concerning what is the mrequirement , and what came out is remakably similar to the original VW BUG. A well desgned simple, rugged car, not a usless toy but a real car. Again the need of the user must be focused upon to determine the real desing. Note autos use a lot of computing power, none of the systems are wintel based. May the best plan win

Let's all just wait one more day and see...

It's irrelevant since every USB thumb drive contains a ARM cpu and the USB storage function is consumming less than 10% of that computing power. Attached a virtual keyboard and LED micro projector to that USB and you have a computer which will satisfy 99.99% computing needed of the underdeveloped world.

I wonder if cheap labor has anything to do with it?

Most of the cost is going to be the display, storage, and battery (power source). --But I don't believe they can make it without slave labor, recycled plastic, and free or ripped-off operating system and applications. What about connectivity or getting data in and out? Perhaps it needs a USB port and the user must purchase the mass storage (extra cost.)

I wonder what kind of distance learning you can do on a devise that does not run the standard compliment of business software or even a light version of it. Ye sthe hardware cost is low, but can you really do anything with it in an educational fashion that will allow for true learning to bring these people to the internet age. I wonder..............................................................

Indian colleagues seem to have brought a good engineering problem to the global agenda: creating something basic and of low cost by using high tech. This will be like reinventing the way we look computing from completely cost perspective. We will now need to start thinking of using very basic building blocks of a computer excluding the conventional parts. It will be very interesting to see where this all leads. If it is successful, low unit price will be more than compensated by the shear volumes sold in developing countries. So there is a lot of money to be made by those who adopt the correct strategy.

It has already been reported that this so called laptop is a farce. Just type "India Laptop News" in any search engine and you will find updates on this topic. Check this link: blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/02/indias-10-lapto.html

We must not forget that Indian company has recently showed off their dream car worth of $2000.00 cost, and it can accomodate 4 passenger including driver. It surely looks tough, but not impossible.

$20 computers are not a big stretch in 2009. We were building Commodore 64?s for $35. 25 years ago... When you get rid of WinTel low cost net based computers should be easy to do in volume. It is not clear who would make any money at that but it is a wake up call for low end computers not designed by the current ?experts?.

The $20 Laptop is likely the same device as the $20 cell phone. In reality it is much more expensive, but as a subscription, you don''t see the true cost up front. You can argue that PC is the same way already. The real question is why can''t we just put the content on a phone with a good screen. I don''t think that there is a magic device that is going to have more performance at less price than a phone which already sells in millions of unit quantities at rock bottom manufacturing costs.

This truly reminds me of how corporate thinks. Unless a ton of money is involved, they are not interested. Just look at how the American auto makers ignored the plug-in electric vehicle? Unless they could sell hundreds of thousands of them they were not going to even make any. Honda and Toyota took the lead and made hybrid cars and became the first to market in those products. Who is number one now! The days of corporate simply saying they will buy technology instead of working to produce it are going away fast. It is about offering products, not only about Stock value!

First - It's great to consider possibilities. I frequently consider the possibility that someday I might secure a date with Angelina Jolie. It is only one opinion, but I suspect that a useable $20 laptop, while to many, might be considered at least as desirable, is just about as unlikely in the near-term. BTW - the generalizations that engineers need to envision non-Intel / non-Microsoft based machines are poor attempts at demonstrating our limited scope of imagination. Actual product in the market suggests that these pardigms were slayed long ago - before your $20 laptop was even a dream in your minds-eye.

I agree x86 is not likely the right choice. Didn''t nVidia choose MIPs for their microcontroller offering? And many people use ARM. I am most curions about the display. TFT''s have dropped in price, but a 3.5" TFT would still take most of your budget! Have they got a better video option???

Getting rid of the microsoft /intel complexities will free people to work on the problem not, waste time and brain power remembering and working with unnecessary features that are just there to justify price. This will give them one more competitive edge if we are not careful.

Getting rid of the microsoft /intel complexities will free people to work on the problem not, waste time and brain power remembering and working with unnecessary features that are just there to justify price. This will give them one more competitive edge if we are not careful.

There is a big difference between a PC and a usable-PC. Hardware wise, it is possible to make $20 or $50 PC. The fact that there is no money to be made means no one will make it. Cellphone is a different story since the cost of the hardware is subsized by service contract, etc. At $20, the cost of testing the unit will be much more than the cost of the hardware. Most people will not work for free.

The SakShat laptop is going to go down as one of the most overhyped and (massively) underdelivering technology stories of 2009.

Don't count the $20.00 Computer out. Think about the IPOD from Apple. All you need to do, is add memory to a mobile phone, enlarge the keyboard, add features such as wireless connection to a printer, etc, and for under $50.00 you have a Personal Computer, phone, Ipod type device etc. The makers of Cell phones can produce a true PC, if they want too. Joe Simiriglio Jr Frontier Custom Assemblies www.lumberkings.biz frontier22@aol.com to contact me.

We should immediately grant Immigration Visa to these Indians to work in US.