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Most readers are aware of all the recent hoopla regarding 40- and 60-watt LED versions of standard 40- and 60-watt bulbs. Prices have dropped sharply, appearances have become somewhat standardized and dimmable versions are becoming commonplace.So now most of the media and blogosphere time is spent in infinite speculation about the pros and cons and timing of when we will have such bulbs with built-in Wi-Fi, color tuning, smartphone gadgetry, retail pricing at the $1.50 level, and the pros and cons of the versions at Wal-Mart versus those at Lowe’s and Home Depot.
Perhaps time for a reality check or two… meaningful for the average consumer, who has no little or no clue about CCT, CRI,or heat sinking as they buy light bulbs to simply put light when and where it’s needed and doesn’t need it to be iTunes compatible.
First some facts:For decades consumers have come to assume (a reasonably valid assumption) they can buy almost any CFL and screw it into any place they previously had a 40W or 60 W incandescent bulb. Maybe it would not allow dimming…maybe it was slow to warm up… maybe the color consistency was not as expected… and some “mongrel” brands have proven not to last as long as was thought. In most cases, however, CFLs have proven to be a good return on investment, lasting much longer and sharply reducing electricity costs. The hundreds of millions sold globally suggests they provided pretty much what was expected.
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It follows then that consumers now have a similar expectation for LED versions, with even longer life and greater electricity savings, dimming, and even better color consistency. What’s not to like as prices keep coming down?
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Let’s shift gears a second. Probably 95% of all UL approved recessed down-light fixtures have, for decades, incorporated simple inexpensive “thermal cutouts”. Why ? Because if a consumer installed an incandescent bulb of higher wattage than recommended, “bad things” could happen in the light fixture. Fixture makers learned early on that if there is a socket, many consumers will assume it’s good for any bulb, which is not expressly warned against.
Back to our story:Turns out that the consumer’s assumption is not valid: that the LED bulb is just another upgrade like the CFL. As noted, folks assumed that anywhere you had the 40W or 60W incandescent, you could screw in the CFL. This is not at all the case for a 40 or 60 watt-equivalent.
Within an LED bulb the internal generation and distribution of heat is such that it “desperately” needs access to cool surrounding air.The fact that it has that metallic housing is irrelevant in restricted air.
That 60 watt Wal-Mart bulb, when operating base down in open air and not even using a shade, has its internal LED case at 85 ° C, the absolute upper end of what is considered “safe” for full life expectancy. The same deal is true for competitive bulbs. Put a shade around it… and it’s a little warmer. Put it into any kind of base-up socket and it gets a lot hotter and all life expectancy numbers are off the table. Put it into any kind of porch or post light fixture, and it can fry, with its internal power supply components at the cliff edge of failure. Put the lamp in a ceiling-mounted fully enclosed fixture and set the timer for when failure will occur.
In other words,totally unlike incandescent and substantially unlike a CFL, reliability and life expectancy go down hill sharply as soon as you install it anywhere that air is restricted. Guess what? A large percentage of places for LED best value is in those place where access is difficult and air is restricted. LEDs do not target a “table-lamp-only” marketplace.
All A-19 (60 W equivalent) LED manufacturers could solve the problem immediately with a 25 cent fix—a simple “cookbook” thermistor circuit that automatically dims the light to a safe thermal equilibrium level as things are getting too hot—and protects the unknowing consumer against himself. LED luminaire makers have been doing this for some time because they concluded it would be foolhardy not to do it.
We’ve see some mighty big LED bulb recalls in last two years stemming from thermal design carelessness. Before we get too enamored with thoughts of LED lamps that double as party lights or Wi-Fi hot spots, let’s first make sure they meet fundamental expectations as a trustworthy long-life, electricity-saving source of light for basic needs. We’re not there yet because this very real issue is being ignored by every existing supplier, without exception, of 40-, 60-, and 100-watt equivalent A-19 style LED bulbs.
Also see :
- How long do LEDs really last?
- Cooling high-power LEDs: The four myths about active vs. passive methods
- Smart vs. Fart Lighting, wood-powered LEDs and levitating lightbulbs?
- Teardown: What killed this LED bulb?
- Honey, I retrofitted the car’s interior lights with LEDs
- LED bulbs can bring heat
- Get more operating life from LED-based bulbs
- The LED: incandescent light bulb heir apparent
- Lighten UP! Ta Da! The top five LED bulb jokes revealed
…and here I was trusting the engineers who designed these LED bulbs to have realized that people will use them in standard light fixtures.
Getting that little piggy to market first is job number one. Figuring out all that reliability and requirements stuff can happen later.
I hope your comment was “tongue in cheek”! If you were serious, I must disagree wholeheartedly with that philosophy – especially considering the production quantities for these products. Quality and reliability are very important, even for a light bulb, wh
Do I smell nasty propaganda?
I see lots of light from moderate sized single LED white lights with three AA batteries.
If there is inefficiency making heat in some models of AC converter LED units, that arises from needing a rather complex converter from
While I believe that “Work to Ride comma Ride to Work” was being sarcastic, I also believe that his comments ARE to be taken seriously. It seems to me that there has been several well-publicized incident reports of these new “electronic” bulbs failing cat
V49— No there is no nasty propaganda. ..and just to clarify— The heat in an LED lamp really has nothing to do with any the AC to DC converter inefficiency ( it is already typically about 88-90% efficient in 99% of all LED lamps. (90 % of the heat is
Was not meant to be “tongue in cheek” but rather a description of the market pressures put on companies. They all must tread a fine line between good enough and early enough to make money.
So what's the engineering problem here? just need to create some air flow the transfer the heat from the led chips to the enclosure.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/12/ge-dual-piezo-jets/
John— Your comment is so logical If only it were so.
It turns out that many in industry know I favor active cooling whenever possible with higher power LEDs But I am a realist here. Unfortunately, the majority of mfrs are skittish about using fans. (
It sounds suspicously like somebody has been paid by some Chinese organization to get out and destroy LED's. We upgraded our entire slot machine area of our casino with LED's with no problem from heat. And we saved a ton of money monthly. With no chance
JustThom– Indeed there are “billions” of LEDs in use globably without heat problems. But here's the difference between “YOUR” application and the “60 watt “led bulb. I suspect that you are familiar with how each of your LED lamps is used.
LED 60 watt
A lot of these heat dissipation problems will go away when the manufacturers and consumers stop trying to fit LEDs in to the old incandescent form factor. The future of architectural lighting is dispersed light sources based on LED strips which spread the
KGround– You are being very logical…but.. there are easily over a billion standard(known as E-26) sockets in use, with infrastructrures, practices, assumptions etc developed over 75 plus years.–and they are no longer for just “those old incandescents”
What does “60 W equivalent” mean? I assume it is not the base, those are pretty standard. It can't be the power consumption as the non-incandescent technologies all draw less power. It is clearly not the light output as both fluorescent and LED units outpu
Awesome technology at the link above.
It won't add more than 5 cents or so to the price of a lamp…right?
The “60-watt-equivalent these days, if the mfr is a name-brand entity– means indeed the equivalent light output of a regualr 60 watt incandescent., A few years ago everybody played games with this “equivalent” terminology— and CFL makers STILL do. But
I checked htis out and I must say if I were GE I woud be embarrassed. Such piezo electric cooling “gadgetry” has been a twinkle in some eyes since the early 1980's, when two fculty meners at MIT (two brothers) started a cmpany, went public, raised millions
I'd like to correct some assumptions.
When determining whether a particular technology offers a good return on investment, its important to not only evaluate the cost return, but risks to human safety.
There are sufficient reports, to indicate that CFL's
Maybe there has to be a law for labeling requirements for all light fixtures being sold. The label must indicate if they are appropriate for CFLs or LEDs. I don't see any other way around the problem of consumers not understanding what bulbs will work wi
The LED lighting company I worked for folded two years ago largely because the market was inundated with “cheap” A19 lights. I performed hundreds of hours of testing and only the Philips light beat ours although it cost about three times ours. Part of my
I wonder if modern homes will just start including lighting circuits that are specifically for supplying a more appropriate voltage for LED light bulbs and eliminate some of the problems that produce the heat in the first place.
How do you educate consumers without putting them off LED replacement bulbs/luminaries? I have been working on an home LED lighting system on-and-off for a couple of years now and I can relate fully to Light Squared's comment. Also, tThe LED luminary desi
Kevin:
You should install a Photocell on your lighting circuit. It simply wires inline and comes on at night, and off at daylight. If you dont want an all night on, you can install a timer as well; they range from $15-75 depending on quality. Photocells co
Great article!! Very informative!!! And my thanks to all you guys with all your comments. This was a really great discussion. I read each and every one of them. You guys really know your stuff.
Ok, they say you should replace your incandescent bulbs with C
Hi L/S,
I'm launching a startup and we would like to avoid your experience while still having a product excel in a well defined market place. If you would like to share some of your perspective could you shoot me an email to ddellario@msn.com? Thanks, D
I also save light receipts. I usually go through 2 or 3 before the life of the original runs out.
LED fixtures have been pushed onto the market by law, unfortunately they are not really ready for widespread use. Just another example of why our government s
The current issue of Home Power has an article comparing manufacturing and other costs.
Regarding the Heat issue for LED replacements; I put a Cree 60 watt equivalent LED lamp in each of my garage light fixtures at the beginning of the summer. These are small enclosures and pretty much sealed with little space for head dissipation. They are
Unfortunately, none of the replacements for incandescent bulbs designed with medium Edison bases are really plug and play. They can only be successfully used in a few legacy fixtures. For the most part the electronics requires passive or active cooling w
The operating position and air flow greatly affects the life of CFLs. Most use cheap consumer grade capacitors in their switch mode ballasts, not 105 degree low ESR/ESL caps. Those caps don't like heat combined with moderately high ripple currents. I ha
On the contrary – boxes with LEDs or CFLs will tell you if they are rated for enclosed fixtures. And, if they are not, do not use them in enclosed fixtures. A “60W equivalent” LED draws about 7 to 10 watts so not anywhere near as much heat is generated a
Thanks Ed,
I concluded after trying a couple that the lifetime wasn't what was promised. It is good to know why.
Thomas Edison invented the first practical incandescent bulb. Davy's experimental platinum filament bulb was expensive, didn't emit much light and didn't last very long. Reminds me of some CFL bulbs I tried. Davy is recognized for inventing the first elect
Light-squared's post is possibly very true. For most of us, even technically excellent engineers, you can't tell in the store which lights are properly designed (everything from color temperature to RF to thermal design) so we end up buying the cheapest. I
Michael– I agree about Consumer Reports. They're not qualified to commment about CFL or LED bulb technology. and Ul, that alleged safety watchdog, is asleep at switch on CFL or LED bulb overheating issues and remiss in not updating UL 1598 and UL 8750.
“… may not understand …” — Nicely said. 😉
bdcst, perhaps this isn't done anymore but when I used to do consulting work for recording studios and small broadcast stations it struck me how often the difference between off-the-shelf consumer electronics and semi-pro studio equipment boiled down to ad
Too bad we can't get an “If you like your old light bulbs, you can keep 'em” promise. 😉
“I can only wonder why they even bothered with this little demo and the non engineering way the data presented.” — If I may venture a guess, both venture capitalists and journalists react more favorably to flash than to facts …
when I built my LED lighting for a large 55 ft x 21 foot office room, I purchased 2″ x 3″ aluminum angle , cut them 6 ft long and thermal epoxied 48 10watt LED chips to the inside of the aluminum angle, which is awesome at absorbing and dispersing heat by
ceolwynn, would you be willing to share your supplier and procurement experiences? I have ambitions for a similar project, but have no experience in initiating overseas supplier relationships.
do you have more info on this 1540 lumen 9.5w setup? seems like a pretty good w/ln
I challenge anybody to show me a “COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE and UL approved _—not a lab or R and D bulb) 60 watt equivalent A-19 style LED bulb —-exhibiting over 1500 properly documented lumens at 2600-2700K CCT and 9.5W. Not gonna happen at this time
Just search on eBay. Tons of that kind of stuff.
I'm thinking about the same kind of thing for kitchen counter lights. The ones in the store are way overpriced, ugly, and have crummy controls. I like the battery backup idea; I think a MOSFET would do th
Oh, dear ~ Here, obviously by mistake, but I too want to stay safe ! Wishing laymens terms spoken here, for blonde grandmothers like me who make un-informed purchases. Did not intend to be cremated at my end. . . What's a granny to buy and stay safe ? ?
Sounds like the “Pelosi” way of doing business.. . . . . .
I check several packages of both cfl and led a bulbs and all of them stated not for totally enclosed or recessed fixtures. I have had experience with CFLs overheating recessed fixtures and tripping the thermistor. so I don't think it is justified to say t
Boo– If you check more closely you will indeed find CFLs with no such labeling I have some here. If you tell me the brand/model you said were labeled, I will respond with those which are not labeled. and by the way, CFL do not have any thermistors in the
Just to be honest, I used to make A19 lamps. What is unconscionable about the incandescent lamp episode in America, is that the lamps were outlawed by government fiat. They should have went out like buggy whips, with a wimper. When the public had moved
wimper = whimper
We own a off-grid house so have been running CFL's for almost 20 years and LED's for five years or so.
I did put CFL's into enclosed fixtures and they burned out fairly quickly. I suspect they were not labeled as such. I have stayed away from putting
509–on your 12-18 comment–just to clarify.I have some Lowe's LED lamps, some philips from home depot and recent par 30 led floodlights from Ace hardware made in China for Feit. I also have some high performance commercial Par 30 led lamps made by Solais
Sylvania is by far the worse. FEIT is second.
So why is the buzzing so much worse with the sine wave inverter versus the grid house??
Probably/Possibly— beccasue what you call a “”sine wave inverter”: i snot reeally a sine wave inverter.
MOst so called sine wave inverters use multistep switching of power MOSFETs.THi sis typically controlled by micro controller.
Very cheap inverters o
I was really glad to read the post, and specially the facts which I think we normally used to avoid,,
http://www.chamberlaindiy.com.au/
My building company just finished a 'hair salon' construction up-fit in an existing shopping center under the new 2012 Energy Code. The 'shock' came when we went to purchase the new lighting fixtures required by the Code and found they were $5,000.00 more
Try to light a business with LED's – impossible – you have to double or triple the number of recessed cans and then you are in danger of going over the watts/sq. ft requirement of the 2012 energy code and the costs for the fixtures is astronomical. Busine
sktrMccluskey— You have touched a hot button of much interest to me. I am quite involved in these kinds of issues. If this was a problem for you, it probably is a problem for guys doing similar jobs all over the country. This site is not the forum to h
I was talking to a sell-respected engineer and entrepreneur who said the addition of Wi-Fi circuitry to an LED bulb completely eliminates the power efficiency of the system, increasing consumption comparable to incandescent. The better way of hooking up l
Regarding Sine Wave inverters and buzzing. I can agree that the only excellent sources of sine waves are certain (but not all) rotating field generators, however pure-sine inverters can actually provide better-than-utility power. This is something I discov
ed, “This site is not the forum to have a lengthy technical discussion”
If a site called electronic design is not the place for a technical discussion, then where?
IMO this is the correct place for a technical discussion, assuming engineers come here.
Technically informed people (like me) will always have a distrust of the “social engineering at any cost” approaches taken by the modern politicians.
If there were no legislation to support the poisonous cfls and the expensive led bulbs, little worldwide
Kenyon “I have dimmed them considerably to protect his eyes”
It is fortunate you didn't use CFLs or there is a good chance he might get real eye damage from the dangerous UV that CFLs generate. The amount of UV radiation that gets out depends on the qual
Kevin “What does “60 W equivalent” mean”
It is a marketing expression designed to help sales and reduce resistance to the outlawing of incandescent bulbs that are too cheap to make money on. So is “long life” by the way.
The power consumption of a WiFi module is around .5 Watts. A small low power microcontroller and FET gating device uses almost nothing. So adding wireless control to a 9.5W (60W equiv) LED bulb would hardly put it over 10W. Nowhere close to 60W.
Not true. The 500KV DC powerline from Bonneville Dam to So Cal has an Inverter station in Sylmar CA that uses a combination of switched capacitors and inductor filters; has now for over 40 years. Besides, sine wave AC has a variable voltage and peak of 17
The original garage sized mercury thyratron tubes were impressive to behold. The Pacific DC Intertie its called; 3,100 megawatts.
Every year I pick up strings of white LED Christmas light strings, about a dollar a watt which is on par with whole bulbs. They work great on the ceilings and and don't have the glare or heating issues.
As a homeowner, albeit a retired biomed eng tech I have a couple of questions. I put a 7.5W A19 bulb in my lamppost on the front lawn in place of the bad 40 watt incandescent. It's screwed into an inexpensive light sensitive switching adapter in the fixtu
That would be a 9 watt LED “bulb”.
there are two kinds of such photocell (lighting switcher adapter)– I know becaus edecades ago I developed and patented a type which is today still sold in many retail channels— th eearlier type had a “thermal relay: –a mechanical kind of circuit.,
Update: I got a 5 meter reel of LEDs off eBay, a PWM 12V dimmer for a couple bucks, a U-shaped aluminum bracket from the hardware store, wired it through the wall to a 12V power supply in the cellar. I put an illuminated switch (so I can find it in the dar
You asked: “I can't imagine why everyone just doesn't make their own ?”
Because I'm already making more things than I have time to keep up with (not joking). I have to resign myself to buying some things. Lighting isn't as high on the priority l
If Leds are so efficient, why do they get so hot that you can't put them in a normal fixture? I have a very powerful, white led flashlight and it doesn't produce any heat that I can feel.
Bret— Efficiency and heat are two different things. A 60 watt incandescnt lamp i svery inefficient and gives off a tremendous amount of heat–put under a small metal plate and it willheat you dinner.Its fi,amnent gets to THOUSANDS OF DEGREES but doe not
Reliability will likely decrease if it is flickering.
There is not enough hysteresis in your light sensor.
“We know that the cheapest LED and CFL bulbs are designed and built in China, sold with “your packaging” to whoever will buy. Having worked on an ongoing designed-in-China consumer electronics project, there is something that I have learned, but have no
“The worst example of this problem we ran into was with an IC manufacturer who wanted us to try out some sample ICs for a consumer FM broadcast band receiver. Several specifications for FM receivers often reference a modulation deviation of +/-22KHz (mea
“… comment continued from previous”
“..comment continued from previousnnThe one thing that Chinese engineers ARE trained to do is to keep the cost down. That they are very good at, and seem to do instinctively, in the same way the we research the market for a product and apply “good engi
“Really remarkable work. I appreciate your work. While reading these kinds of blogs i also came to know very genuine site. We can get online good range of led lamps for home, ERD Led Bulbs, high powered led torch and led torch light in India at great price
“I am using a lot of LED lamps and having no trouble with heat in the lamps. My problem is surge – when power is connected the capacitor after the rectifier charges, and I have measured peak currents of over 20A in one lamp – only for a ms or two, but that
“Actually, they are labeled, on the box, not the item.nBut they are labeled by wattage, nothing else.nnProblem, Most of them have been installed for decades, those are the big issue, not new ones.”
“Good Name brand product from Lowes or Home Depot.nLook at the Lumens not the watts. For 60 watt equal, you want 800 lumens in the 2700 kelvin color range. Those are not the cheap ones. But , the Name brand units will last longer.nWatch to see if they st
“Looking at the Wall outlet “sine wave” here I totally agree. Overloaded transformers and such give us low voltage and flat-topped sines.nnPlease email scramjet57@gmail.com I would like the source of the good inverter for personal use.”
“Interesting discovery and a proper fix.nWell Done.”
“If you only turn it on for 15 minutes per day average, they will be about equal. “
“”They should have went out like buggy whips”nnIt sounds like that there are people who own stock in coal mines and coal production companies. It certainly would be nice if all important technology was obvious enough that everyone would buy it without
“That is absolutly not happening with any Phillips bulbs – what Chinese crap did you buy?”
“NOPE, a 2000Wat bulb would (or 10 200 watt bulbs) and actually about 18amps in the real world.n200watts is about – you guessed it, a 1.8amp draw – and there is NO spike with LED or incandecent, or CFL or Flourescent.”
“Guaranteed, the heat produced at the base of even the Chinese 40w LED bulbs is nowhere near the heat produced out the top AND socket of a 40w incandescent. WHere are these people coming from?”
“Precisely correct”
“Absolutely wrong. Way wrong.”
“Whoever said that clearly is in the wrong forum for them!”
“Actually, almost all wall-use power supplies are 90~270v (note the difference therer, a squigly line, indicating VARIBALE voltage switching: most people miss that)”
“It would if wimper was spelled correctly.”
“Nope, you are not oredering from an LED Architectural site. there are LED fixtures that do 1200 to 1700 lumens now!”
“MAn, what are you eating, how's your diet!?”
“MAn, what are you eating, how's your diet!?”
“Grainger was selling only Floruescent tube replase,mensts for 5 years at that!”
“LED bulbs have been available from China for over ten years – anyone could get them.”
“Compared with CFLs and incandescent lights, I believe that LED is much efficacy. Though it still has some defects without a solution at present, but at least it's superior to CFLs. As for the problem of heat, I think any bulbs would emit heat once they h
“Interesting comments from many – I personally have evaluated dozens of LED bulbs. There are excellent solutions available and the bulbs use a fraction of incandescent equivalents and produce narrow spectrum light. They do not have the mercury nor exhi
“Tarbert99 You ar so correct– after seeing a “zillon commetns in repsonse to my orginal poice, let me maqkea final comment. Thre has been “profound” change in the arket dynamics foa 40-60 watt LED equivalent types in last 5 years.. The days of the Chi
“”CFLs have proven to be a good return on investment, lasting much longer and sharply reducing electricity costs.” This is hard to believe considering the eye damages and disposal costs that are unknownw at this time. There are a lot of other reasons to
“I have electric lamp post with two standard 25 watt candle bulbs (bases upside down). The fixture label says “total maximum 50 watt”. Could I replace them with two 40 watt equivalent LED candle bulbs. “
“FM reception is a victim as well. I found my LED lamp samples generate RFI in the VHF range. My very basic tests here http://www.hamradio.me/station/led-light-bulbs-make-table-lamps-work.html suggest brand names count as the Phillips was the more qu
“I've been using CFLs for 25 years. What is your experience, reading some FUD articles? CFLs do save a lot of money. Tungsten lamps are not cheap if you have to pay for the electricity that they use. Good CFLs last a very long time, even the cheapies outl
“Not oversensitive at all. There are sixteen LED lamps on one switch. If they all have 20A peaks that's 320A.”
“In my experience, both CFL's and LED's are pretty much crap. I went to CFL's 15 years ago when they first came available in Canada, and I have 3 bulbs that I got from Ikea that are still alive. Other than that, almost without exception, no CFL bulb has
“Yes. 40W equivalent doesn't mean they draw 40W. It means they put out as much light as a 40W incandescent bulb. 40W equivalent LED bulbs would only draw somewhere between 6-9W each, which would be well under your 50W fixture rating. An outdoor light m
“Can you at least proof read your replies? I don't think I've ever seen a post with so many typos and such poor spelling. You are giving Engineers a bad name…”
“Oh, and another beef I have with both CFL's and LED is NOISE! These things inject so much noise onto the AC line that they interfere with almost every power line carrier system I have. Whether it's home automation, network extenders, wireless, whatever,
“Thanks a lot. I will replace them and to see how long it will last.”
“I expect you haven't saved any net energy either, if the energy required to make the CFLs and LEDs is taken into consideration. BTW, your experience mirrors mine. We have a few small IKEA candelabras (with adapters to Edison base) that are still alive. Ot
“So, after reading thru the comments here am I correct to gather that the problem with LED bulbs in enclosed fixtures hasn't been fixed since this blog post was written? Is there any LED bulb by any manufacturer that will fulfill life-expectancy promises w
“lightalog— no the situation has not changed one bit. If you put an led bulb having more 8-9 watts (not watts “equivalency) base up –or even base down, in a fairly tight enclosed fixture you will severely compromise bulb life expectancey becassue the a
“The log homes we build need more light than the average house with their vaulted ceilings and darker coloured walls. I am looking at the 500 lumen, 7.5 or 8 watt candelabra bulb by utilitech as a solution. if the glass cups were removed from the light fi
“lightalog–few more comments— At 7-8 watts you are right on the edge of acceptability, I will comment as though “I ” were the one doing this– and I am intimately familiar with all the aspects of how an led or internal power suppy may fail on the bas
“I have an E12 40W max bulb in an enclosed light over a stove. Is there any bulb that I can use that has more lumens?”
“Regrettably ,maybe not. The one possible is to fnd, on Amazon or somewhere else a halogen E12 since it might have 20% more lumens, An LED or CFL rated for only 7-8 wattscoud easily give doi8ble the lumens, but the enclosed (sealed0 enlcosure woud caus t
“the CFL will take a few minutes of self-heating from sub-zero temps to reach good efficacy. Many tubes are rated to -30'C but not all. regarding the light sensor, there may be a compatibility problem with the sensor with a lack of sufficient hysteresis.
“I once built a 1000 sq.ft. Rec Room with 19 Pot lights and only used 100W incandescent bulbs which were rated for 1500 h. Except I got more than 5000 h from them and I never used Romex housings for the ceiling boxes. WHY? because it was cool. ( less than
“Now for garage & kitchen I prefer 4500~5000K tri-phosphor daylight tubes with 50Kh life and 88 Lumens per watt. with adequate CRI as shown in this slideshow of my old kitchen comparing it to pure sunlight. https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwasqwpn4tvle9a/F
“While I appreciate the truth of this article, I have been using Cree 60W equivalent LED bulbs and I am very happy. They do start immediately, color match is so good that it is difficult to distinguish from an old incandescent 60W bulb, and so far none of
“I do not use the high-tech LEDs that we are hearing about here.. I use the cheap cheap Chinese units which amount to a few COBB LEDs in a matrix along with a rectifier and capacitance device to calm down the rectified AC. They use around 5 Watts and put
“I just found another problem with LED bulbs I've never heard of. I think I just bought a 60W-equivalent bulb from Home Depot. I installed it in our kitchen. A few seconds later I see a flash! (?) The switch wasn't on. Every 5 to 10 seconds the bulb w
“There are no such things as lighted switches which can work for you–neon or led.. The problem of course is that a “lighted switch” is never really off. It is “cheating” and powering the neon . and the neon typically acts like a 47K ohm resistor con
“Thanks for the article, Ed. I've spoken to people in shops selling LED bulbs here in new Zealand and as you say, no-one is aware of this issue at the retail level, never mind consumers. However I have noted the packaging in many cases (in 2015) indicate
“The LED “Shop light” that is sold by Costco works with Neon Lighted switches. ~$35 I haven't tried other LED bulbs from costco on lighted switches however.”
“Yes, I found this two days ago with an outdoor LED 10w spotlight. The switch light caused the LED to flash for a small fraction I of a second very 5 or 6 seconds. This switch had a wire to the illuminating light which I could change from load to neutral
“Long life capacitors For LED LIGHTING DRIVER POWER SUPPLIESnShanghai Yongming Electronic Co., Ltd., which is a China-based manufacturer focused on designing &manufacturing Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors. Qualities has approved by current customers PHIL
“Do not forget to factor in time. I am installing a 50 watt proximity switch on our pantry door that will actuate a 10 watt (60 WE) LED Philips clear bulb enclosed in a clear ceiling globe. The maximum time that the light will be on at any one time will
“Reader mentions that COSTCO shop light works OK. Makes sense. Today, many low cost, relatively low wattage, simple LED “fluorescent-tube-replacement” type products use a simple series string of many LEDs . along with a 15 cent bridge rectifier and
“I just purchased LED Light Bulbs 7-Watt B35 Crystal White Glow 5000K LOHASu00ae LED Candelabra Bulb from Amazon. This was my second order. The first set worked fine in my chandelier as the base was down and the tip up. On my second order the bulbs wor
” The reason your bulb does not work in horizontal position is going to be EXTREMELY SIMPLE reasons–such as the socket depth is a little deeper so tip of bulb does not make contact and you have to screw it in a little tighter to make cntqact– and hopefu
“I had this problem several years ago. The bulb contact on the end of the screw in part was not touching the contact on the inside of the socket when tightly screwed in. The fix was to either extend the contact on the bulb, or (with the power off) use a
“I recently installed heath/zenith shaker cove mission coach exterior motion detection lights. I put 100 watt LED bulbs. They are nice and put out a fair amount of light, but, I was wondering if I could buy the 150 watt dimmable led lights to make it brig
“LED lamp overheating often was the case, so the electronic parts in drive was the heat resistance is very important, because LED lights internal temperature sometimes reaches more than 120 degrees c, The electronic parts fault cause they are not resistanc
“One of the problems with this whole area is that we are totally ignoring the obvious solution. WHY are we still building houses and making light fixtures for 110 in the first place. The real solution is change the bloody building standards. Desk, table
“The “not for totally enclosed or recessed fixtures” labeling comes from the UL standard not marketing. To not have this warning the lamp must pass the temperature rise test in an enclosed housing with no openings.”
“The dusk sensor uses a triac to switch the power (most likely) and it is causing the led to flicker because it is in effect acting like a dimmer.”
“Wow–really impressed with the technical knowledge displayed here but totally overwhelmed as a lay person. I hope this is a simple question–I have a floor lamp/torchiere (lamp socket is “down” ) that is rated for 60W max. This is not enough light fo
“Re post by Harpeli: “…..bulb burning more often than a few times a year” should be “bulb burning OUT more often than a few times a year””
“First of all there is ZERO safety or fire hazard if you use any 100 or 150 watt u201cequivalentu201d LED bulb in a table or floor lamp. That is because the LED version will actually use only about use about 15% of the watts of an incandescent of that
“Many thanks for the prompt reply. It's time to replace all my table lamps with LED's. Now, my bulk purchase of over 100 incandescent bulbs will surely last me a life-time!”
“”It is a certainty that not a manufacturer in the industry is making a cent of profit on today's 40 and 60 watt residential LED bulbs but the high volume”nnThat is not at all a certainty. 60W equivalents are being MFG for less than $1.00 (LEDs are le
“That $0.20 is cost to MFR. For captive suppliers, internal costs will of course be lower.”
“Except for linear fixtures, out of necessity, that never took off for the consumer market for CFL, so there is little reason to expect it would for LED. nnWhat “standard” would you insist on for that low voltage …. that you are going to be stuck wit
“For an outdoor sconce (enclosed for weather protection) with one upside down socket, what bulb options do we have? As the production of incandescents is phased out, it seems that we will be left with CFLs and LEDs only. But from this website my unders
“I believe that I have found an answer to my problem/question and so will not require a response from you. Thank you anyway.”
“I know you seem to have already answered your own question u2013but for the record-and for others who may have similar questionu2014Let me provide some facts, based on certain specific projects I am now involved in regarding 40- and 60 watt-equivalent
“Ed, you claim to have all this experience in LEDs, thermals, etc. but you often post things that are not accurate. This is another case in point:nn- UL1993 does not say the capacitors have to be 90C. It quite clearly says they must meet the manufacture
“Dear Ed,nnI have a very odd situation, can you anticipate any problems using this type of LED 'equivalent' bulb in my yacht fixtures. I have a vintage Hatteras that uses 32V fixtures with 'standard' bulb screw-type bases. The incandescent replacements
“I worked for years in the oil industry as a maintenance electrician. I've changed hundreds of lighting devices and I have only found the explosion proof fixtures use where flammable gases were present, to be air tight. Some weatherproof fixtures, combine
“1) A number of years ago Lights of America introduced LED bulbs. I bought about $500 worth, and they were absolute junk. To this day I refuse to buy any Lights of America products.nn2) As I migrated from incandescence to CFLs I found that they did not
“I am looking for a 60 watt equivalent LED candelabra base E12 bulb to fit in a vanity fixture which is wooded with 12 bulbs. I need bulbs about the size of a Christmas bulb and prefer bright white vs. soft or daylight. Any suggestions??? I could possibly
“Consider running a buck regulator to knock the 32 volts down to 12-15v, or maybe 24 v, and then use an appropriate CFL or LED bulbs. The regulator can be mounted in an aluminum box next to the fixture. You can buy the Buck regulator modules online for a
“Important issue of Glare from lamp while comparing LED,CFL and Bulb seems to be least discussed.In practice many may have experienced that visibility is reduced under LED. ie wattage of LED needs to be increased to get same readability.”
“For a lot of people, incandescent bulbs are most used in winter, when the heat, as well as the light, are useful. I recommend using LED lamps ONLY in base-down fittings or places when the light is only on for a few minutes at a time. Some shades make an
“I have a BR30 LED that tunrs off when it gets too hot, then cycles as it heats and cools. A dozen others from the same manufacturer have worked fine in recessed fixtures for about 3 years now.nhttp://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/rowe-s-and-columns/
“The technology these days have advanced so much that the fans are becoming more energy efficient than the light bulbs.nThere are fans with power rating of 30 watts which is way below the above discusses 50-60 watts.nScience!!nnRef:nhttps://atomberg
“So, after 5 years since you wrote about your experience has your opinion about LED lighting changed? nLED technology has changed, was it for the better?n”
“Are you interested in Glow Wire Tester? Maybe we can exchange ideas about it. Please go to:ntestextextile.com/product/glow-wire-tester”
I've generally found Consumer Reports to be a useless source of information for just about everything.
I seem to have had much better luck with CFLs than many of you, though I agree they have many problems.
In 180 lamp-years (18 CFLs, 10yrs, various usa
Re my fully enclosed fixtures, my best guesses:
One has 2x13W mounted horizontally – shining on me as I type.
The other is probably 23W, base up! Well…might be 13W…
Crazy, I know.
“That's one oversensitive (faulty?) breaker! After all, an incandescent lamp (say, 200W worth) will pull about 20A surge, and for a lot longer than 1-2ms. nnI put thermistor “buttons” in a few of my incandescent bulb sockets 25yrs ago…nnMaybe we ne
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“Such a good article !nwww.albedolights.com”
“Sujet interessant https://www.medespoir.ch“
Are you sure there is no nasty propaganda?
Consider two 800 lumen bulbs, one consuming 9 W the other consuming 14 W to produce the same 800 lumens. With some of the LED bulb's LED die producing +600 mW of optical power from 1 W input (with even better co
Also-
In the power LED type of construction- the LEDs silicone (better grade material) degrades much slower than you find in in most “ceramic boat” and “plastic boat” LED construction. I've seen the last two visibly degrade in as little as 2,000 hours, a
I too have had 12 of 13 Ecosmart CFL bulbs (#1 top rated by Consumer Reports) fail in under 2 years (way short of the warranty), most in under six months, and most of the “quick-start” (warm up time) fail in a month or two. FYI, for anyone trying to get
The LED quality varies dramatically in the LED bulbs. You have the cheap plastic “boat” package LEDs that degrade very rapidly if ambient temperatures are raised. Same is true of many of the Ceramic “boat” packages (but not all). COB (die on board) qual
To tell you the truth, Consumer Reports was the absolute *worst* source of advice for the best CFL. I've had 12 out of 13 their Top Rated EcoSmart 60W replacement, 9 year warranty bulbs fail between a few months and in 2 years. It is six years, and none
On a side note, it didn't matter whether they were Philips, GE, Sylvania, N:Vision, Ecosmart, Feit, Commercial Electric, I've had problems with all of them, in a wide variety of fixtures and locations. No, I don't see low or high line voltages, brown-outs
“I have a faster, easier solution for those so skilled to solve the short bulb base/long socket issueu2026. Use a soldering iron and add a flat wafer of solder to the bulb's socket tip contact. Make sure you flux it good first so that the bead sticks
“I replaced our over the stove fan-hood light with a 60W equivalent LED bulb from the local hardware store and have no problems with it. I also however always turn the fan on on the hood so that hot exhaust from heating pots below is vented out of the kit
“Much of what this ney-saying article puts out about thermal issues has been since drastically improved and in many cases is a non-issue now as the knowledge gained by the engineering scientists and manufacturing firms has been applied to new product and h
“Truly anymore the only consumer household applications that aren't enabled for LED usage seem to be just the lights inside of your traditional bake ovens. nnTo a lesser extent, there are issues with refrigeration unit lighting where the light sockets
“As for fluorescent replacements, if you don't want issues with lighted switches, the non-ballast replacement LED bulb are a more compatible option. These bulb are directly wired from line to neutral wires with no balast, so it removes the problem of know
“Regency Finance Company.nAddress: 1210 Capital of USA Hwy South, Bldg. 1 Ste 230nPhone: +1 817-612-3439nnnLoan for blacklisted people nnnnnHello dear loan seekers, are you a business man or woman, Are you ntired of seeking loans or are you in a
“I have had a number of the Phillips L-Prize bulbs, as well as their lower cost derivatives all of a sudden, start failing. Upon teardown of the bulb, where the wires attach to their alumina “pcb” that the LEDs are mounted on, the wires are popping off
“Yes, LED lighting technology has improved significantly since 2013. Most of my A19 style LED bulbs have better MTBF. I recently replaced my T-12 fluorescent bulbs with drop-in LED universal variety that can be used with newer ballasts or with rewired fi
“60W LED light,6600LM, very bright and does not generate a lot of heat. The LED light is made of heavy-duty die-cast aluminum housing and tempered lenses. The innovative heat dissipation can prolong LED lifespan to 50,000 hours. This is approximately 13 ye